Why I don't give a bucket of warm owl spit how bad F1 cars look

"BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires" (biturbo228) 01/26/2014 at 15:40 • Filed to: None

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The only consideration that an F1 team has (and the only one they should be concerned with) is speed compared to their rivals.

If an F1 car is pretty, but slow, it's a bad F1 car. If an F1 car is ugly, but fast, it's a good F1 car.

Ultimately, these noses are due to safety regulations. If a nose is high, and someone T-bones another person there's a chance that the nose skirts up over the side-pod and hits someone in the head. Probably slim, but possible, and also avoidable.

As an interesting comparison, how many Indycar drivers have died or were seriously injured in the past 20 years in their better looking cars? !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! comes to mind instantly, and I don't think I've watched a single Indycar race myself.

You could argure that creating ugly cars is putting off viewers, but I'd argue that a death in the sport does that far more effectively. My dad hasn't watched F1 since Senna died, and when Colin McRae died (even though it wasn't in a rally car), it dealt rally in the UK a blow that it has yet to recover from.

Without the significant advances in safety that the FIA has forced upon the teams, it is likely that Webber would have been killed or greviously injured in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! , Massa in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! and Sergio Perez in !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! ne.

Furthermore, if there were more precautions involved in testing, !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!! may still be with us.

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Everyone says that this or that is unnecessary, until something happens to someone that is completely preventable.

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Brian Silvestro > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 15:43

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I just love the fact that they'll look relatively different this year rather then last year when they were generally all the same-looking,

Roberto G. > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 15:48

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ChampagneChariot > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 15:49

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The only reason this and those step noses from 2 years ago happen is because of the teams wanting the car a certain way. It's not the regs, it's the teams.

ChampagneChariot > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 15:49

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The only reason this and those step noses from 2 years ago happen is because of the teams wanting the car a certain way. It's not the regs, it's the teams.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > ChampagneChariot 01/26/2014 at 16:00

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How so?

From my understanding, the reason for the noses last year (and the ones this year) is because of a rule imposing a maximum height that a nose can reach.

This was necessitated by the change in aerodynamic theory to having the front suspension mounted very high up (to better utilise the airflow under and around the car). This introduced a risk that if someone is t-boned, the nose could skirt up over the side-pod and impact the driver's head. Needless to say, this would not result in a pretty outcome.

The ugliness is to do with aerodynamics. If a prettier nose is less efficient, a team won't choose it.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Roberto G. 01/26/2014 at 16:02

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As far as I can tell, yeah :)

Goshen, formerly Darkcode > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 16:07

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"If an F1 car is pretty, but slow, it's a bad F1 car. If an F1 car is ugly, but fast, it's a good F1 car."

This, various times over. Race cars are meant to win races, not beauty contests.

Also, "a bucket of warm owl spit"...That's a very curious expression I must say.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Goshen, formerly Darkcode 01/26/2014 at 16:09

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It's one of my favourites :) not very common, but good fun

iDriveCode3 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 16:31

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I honestly don't know where I've been for the past thirty two years. I caught the second half of the 2013 season, having never watched F1 before, and - despite all the talk about how boring a season it was - I'm hooked. These vehicles are amazing and I find the advancement of the aero and technology so very beautiful.

Seeing the variation in the nose structures this week alone has been fascinating and a huge departure from the very similar looks from last season. If this is the look of speed, then I'm ok with it.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 16:36

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I agree...what is this shit. Are we all 5 years old? "It's ugly...I no like! I want pretty F1 cars! Why aren't they pretty! I hate ugly cars!"...really? It's Formula fucking One...I don't care if the car looks like a dirty shriveled up asshole, if it's fast, it's a good car. The sentiment across the internet every time the cars change makes me really wonder if 90% of the "fans" out there even actually watch F1 much less actually care about how it works/what happens. Apparently they are all a bunch of grade school girls, all rooting for the "pretty car" to win.

Pitchblende > Brian Silvestro 01/26/2014 at 16:42

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There is something I enjoy about seeing comparable machines that have solved problems in different ways, F1 cars will never be as varied as GT cars but the variety of noses means some cars at least have a chance of looking distinctive.

Brian Silvestro > Pitchblende 01/26/2014 at 16:43

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Yes, this is what I'm getting at. Every team takes a look at the problem in a different way with no outside reference or prior solutions. This way there is a unique answer from every team.

Pitchblende > Brian Silvestro 01/26/2014 at 16:47

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And that is why much that I see the point of single make racing my heart yearns for different cars on the track.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > iDriveCode3 01/26/2014 at 16:56

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Me neither. I started watching off-and-on during the late Schumacher years, and then picked it up again as of ~2010.

2012 was a barmy season, and the championship went down right to the wire on the last race.

There was actually tons of passing last season. Not compared to Nascar for instance, but F1 passes have always been more similar to setting up moves in a chess game than a boxing match.

I think the worry people have about last season is just how dominant Vettel was. It's a close championship that keeps it interesting for the public, and I really hope next season is a corker :) personally, I love the engineering behind them as well as the drivers championship

WhereAreMyPants > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:12

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Amen!

I agreed with you in the other thread that, I guess, caused you to write this, and I stool do.

Safety and performance are the only things that matter, and only in that order.

ScreenShot > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:21

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Victorious Secret > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:23

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With F1 the designers are the engineers, the real designers are told to piss off and work on something else.

F1 teams don't care if what they design looks like sin, if its something that garners a competitive advantage they will do it and not care what we think.

It isn't a road car, its a race car. Function over style every single time.

RMudkips > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:24

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Form follows function, as they say.

SaiDas > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:25

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If other drivers don't stop driving when someone dies, why would anyone stop viewing? Deaths are very rare these days in motorsports.

SaiDas > iDriveCode3 01/26/2014 at 17:28

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Until the regulation changes a few years ago with DRS, tires, etc. F1 was a bit boring as there wasn't nearly the action there is now. Previously, it often didn't change much after the first lap. The tires only lasting a few laps, however, is too much. I also miss watching the fueling...especially when someone would drive down pit lane with the hose still attached.

The Stig's InternetUsingCousin > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:41

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I know what you mean about deaths putting off viewers. I haven't watched Indy since Wheldon died, and I'm never going skiing because of what happened to Schumacher.

pisswizard69 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:48

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No, the ugly noses are due to the corruption and incompetence of the FIA in writing and enforcing its own rulebook. The original rule was for safety, the follow ons that made the step noses and dick noses is the FIA trying to band-aid the situation and making it worse. Because, again, they are corrupt and incompetent.

pirates-ecu > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:54

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unlike your troll colleague... I can not agree more...

F1 is about building to the rules, these are the rules, so what do you have.

gear332 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 17:55

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An interesting point you make (maybe unintentionally) is that this happens every time the car changes. When they started going to high noses from the low noses, people said the high noses were ugly. Now we're saying the low noses are ugly? Personally, I think the F14T looks pretty good.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > The Stig's InternetUsingCousin 01/26/2014 at 17:55

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I wouldn't be too put off skiing by what happened with Schumacher. Skiing's dangerous, but deaths and serious injuries are very rare.

Saying that, I have done pretty much the exact same thing as Schumacher two years ago. We were skiing off-piste and one of my skiis dug into the powder and hit a rock. It flipped me a couple of times, but luckily I just landed in soft snow.

I wasn't wearing a helmet, so if I had hit a rock I'd probably be dead. I was certainly travelling a lot faster than Schumi.

Needless to say, next time I'm going I'm getting a helmet.

Rwlong > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:55

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Nice rant but why must beauty and fast be exclusive to each other? Part of the reason we love cars is their beauty. Think of your favorite Formula One car, is it just the brutally fast that you like or are there elements of classic lines and (GASP) beauty? Safety regulations need not be damned but aesthetics need not be thrown out the door either. Pretty, fast and safe.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > SaiDas 01/26/2014 at 17:56

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I'm not sure myself. My dad just said he sort of lost interest in it. Couldn't give a reason.

There's someone else in the comments who said a similar thing happened to them when Dan Wheldon died. If you're curious, you could ask them.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > gear332 01/26/2014 at 17:57

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Yeah that too....I really like this. I didn't mind the high noses, but I definitely thought they were a bit less attractive than the low noses. Funny how the more things change, the more things stay the same.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 17:58

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Precisely :)

If putting a scaled-up copy of Bill Bailey's face on the front of F1 cars made them go faster, teams wouldn't hesitate in doing so.

23lj > ChampagneChariot 01/26/2014 at 17:58

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What. The. Fuck. Are you talking about? This is a regulation change, one many teams don't like.

Jonathan Harper > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 17:59

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AMEN!!

23lj > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:00

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I wonder what all the hoopla is about when people go off about the looks of the cars too. Further, nothing is ever going to come close to those beautiful machines from the 90s. They're gone though, and drivers that may have been gone, aren't. I'll take the trade.

Pdexter > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:01

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I actually find these cars quite damn good looking. Especially McLaren, less so that Ferrari. So I have absolutely no problems with anything here, other than the engine changes.

Got a bitch about something, it's the internetz.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > WhereAreMyPants 01/26/2014 at 18:04

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This man gets it :)

Kookanoodles > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:05

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Hear, hear.

Also, I have to say it : I actually dig the Lotus E22's double nose.

King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:05

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Agreed, but as the 2014 Pornula 1 season rolls along, the jokes will continue to cum thick and fast...a veritable orgy of poor taste.

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Maxxuman > Roberto G. 01/26/2014 at 18:09

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That's a lot of owl spit, but he has a point.

dmcspeedy > ChampagneChariot 01/26/2014 at 18:10

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Not really. The rules changed and the teams found that to extract maximum performance within that framework, noses had to have a step in them. This year they've changed further, and again to maximise performance noses are ugly.

You can't expect F1 designers to leave tenths on table for the sake of aesthetics.

RaggedMile > Rwlong 01/26/2014 at 18:10

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It's not that they are mutually exclusive as there have certainly been beautiful F1 cars on the past. However at a certain point a few years ago a new design paradigm came along that dictated the you get the nose as high as possible to channel air to the diffuser and it got to the point where it was becoming a safety issue. So the nose height was made a little lower, but the high nose geni was out of the bottle and along came the stepped nose. Then for this years big changes they mandated a much lower nose but the designers still want to have the chassis as high as possible and you end up with these compromises.

All that said there were certainly some ugly F1 cars in the past that were ugly just due to what the designers thought would be fast. Sometimes they were other times not so much.

rad_mike > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 18:10

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The Chaparral 2J approves this message.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > pisswizard69 01/26/2014 at 18:10

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Possibly, but I'm not sure. As I understand it, the cause of these nose-height regulations was the tendency for F1 teams to raise the front suspension mountings as high as they can to better direct the airflow under and around the car. This introduced the possibility that if someone was t-boned, the nose could ride over the side-pod and impact someone's head, which would not end prettily.

If the height of the suspension mountings is due to FIA regulations saying they can't be lower, then I agree with you. The FIA caused this trend. However, I haven't found any evidence suggesting it was regulation-led.

The regulations could probably have been implemented in a way to make the cars look better, but whether they would have been safer and/or faster that way I do not know. I don't have the resources or know-how to conduct that sort of investigation.

pisswizard69 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:11

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hey great job putting Dan Wheldon in this convo when you dont watch the series and have no fucking clue what the hell you are talking about, great job.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > rad_mike 01/26/2014 at 18:11

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Great example haha

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > 23lj 01/26/2014 at 18:12

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"They're gone though, and drivers that may have been gone, aren't. I'll take the trade."

Very elegantly put :)

ScreenShot > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:13

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JACU - I've got bonifides. > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:17

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"As an interesting comparison, how many Indycar drivers have died or were seriously injured in the past 20 years in their better looking cars? I can certainly think of one off the top of my head , and I don't think I've watched a single Indycar race myself."

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Really?

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Rwlong 01/26/2014 at 18:18

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I don't know why they're mutually exclusive in this instance. If a beautiful car were faster, I'm sure at least one team would have made one. I'd love to ask a proper F1 aerodynamicist why the noses are like they are, but I doubt I'd understand the intricacies of why.

You're right about my favourite F1 car though. Mine is the Vanwall VW5, mostly because it's so damn beautiful.

It wasn't very fast though, and I doubt Vanwall would have hesitated if they knew that making it uglier would have made it faster. Ultimately, an F1 team's job isn't to make a car that I will have pictures of 60 years later. It's to make a car that will beat everyone else's.

ComradeSlow > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:19

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they way you merged the two Ferrari's together makes it look like the snout intake is designed to blow air into the drivers crotch.

Who cares how they look in the showroom? They are all going to look awesome at speed. And traditionalists be damned I bet they are going to sound good too.

Barbarian772 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:20

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I've no problem with cars looking worse than the years before(not saying they do) and I have also no problem with safety regulations, as long as the cars would get faster and faster and faster every year. If the trend continues they are no longer going to be the fastest cars to drive around a track, in fact I doubt that they still are today. Make them safer, but don't make them slower!

Rwlong > RaggedMile 01/26/2014 at 18:21

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But the high nose genie can be thrown back into the bottle. As was the V-12 genie, the v-10 genie and many others genies. Nothing stopping them from changing the rules. The Gods of Formula One seem to have no problem changing them at all. So why not use them to also help the aesthetics. I have no problem watching ugly cars race fast but I do prefer beautiful cars that race fast more! The post seems to be saying safety dictates they must be ugly and that is bull.

Autolegend86 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 18:23

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Its not fast. Its slow. This is tenth straight year F1 cars are SLOWER than they were 10 years ago.

Your view on F1 is ideal F1. Ideal F1 is closed cockpits, enclosed wheels, blown exhaust, no limits on power/fuel/whatever.

Thats real F1. F1 of today is green agenda + tv audiences.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > JACU - I've got bonifides. 01/26/2014 at 18:24

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Fuck, I didn't even notice that.

Rwlong > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:25

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"All noses in 2015 should look like this, now go make you car the fastest it can be" Your Friend Bernie. There fixed the problem.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > pisswizard69 01/26/2014 at 18:26

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Thankyou for enlightening me then.

I know enough that his death was a preventable tragedy, and that the Indy grid still hasn't recovered from his loss (and probably won't for a long time).

I may not watch Indy, but don't assume that I don't know about anything about what happened with Dan Wheldon. It's something that has reached beyond the Indy faithful.

Jayjaycee > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:26

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I like the look of the new cars, I also liked the walrus Williams!

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Autolegend86 01/26/2014 at 18:27

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Well that's all regulated...I don't think anyone is going to come out and call F1 cars slow however. They are at the limits of what humans can control anyway. In addition, when I speak about speed, I guess I thought most would understand I meant relative. If your car is fast compared to the rest of the field, you have a good car.

Aaron Short - PROUD OF LEYLAND > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:27

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It wasn't just Colin dieing that killed off the WRC in this country.

The death of late Richard burns also had an impact, even though most leave this great man in McRaes shadow (this deeply upsets me)

Also the dominance of Mr.Loeb kinda made it a procession.

MTY85 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:28

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Every time the cars go through a change, everyone whines and bitches about them looking ugly, then, magically, a few races into the season, it's never mentioned again, because they weren't "ugly," they're just different. It doesn't matter WHAT a change is; a certain portion of people will reject it, just because it's a change.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > King Ginger, not writing for Business Insider 01/26/2014 at 18:28

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Hah :) it's safer for the drivers and it's comedy gold .

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Kookanoodles 01/26/2014 at 18:28

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Me too. It's interesting how they've gone for a completely different concept to the other teams. I wonder whether it'll be quicker.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Rwlong 01/26/2014 at 18:30

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...I think he's got it :)

RaggedMile > Rwlong 01/26/2014 at 18:31

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That's true but it would take a more comprehensive change to the rules that would require the bottom of the chassis to be lower from the front axle to the cockpit.

I'll have no problem watching this years cars either, and am actually digging the different concepts that the teams are coming up with. But with no further changes to the regs they will probably end up optimizing around whichever one works the best over the next few years.

RaggedMile > Rwlong 01/26/2014 at 18:31

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That's true but it would take a more comprehensive change to the rules that would require the bottom of the chassis to be lower from the front axle to the cockpit.

I'll have no problem watching this years cars either, and am actually digging the different concepts that the teams are coming up with. But with no further changes to the regs they will probably end up optimizing around whichever one works the best over the next few years.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Barbarian772 01/26/2014 at 18:32

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Good point, an an interesting discussion there. There's too many things to balance for it to be that clear cut. Even if we take safety out of it, at which point does making faster cars outweigh the benefit of having close racing. It seems that in F1, faster cars means more aero which means it's harder to pass.

Faster cars, or more exciting racing? Tricky balance to get right.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > ComradeSlow 01/26/2014 at 18:36

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Maybe that's Ferrari's secret for Singapore...

I'm going to hold off with how they sound until I hear them in person. Television hardly conveys a fraction of what an F1 car actually sounds like (as I found out at Silverstone last year).

On the TV, they sound a bit high-pitched and whiney. In person, they're so damn loud they hurt your ears with every pass, and the shriek just doesn't seem to stop climbing in pitch, yet it's still bassy enough to vibrate your ribcage. It's fantastic.

The V6 turbos might sound a little less inspiring on an engine dyno through via youtube, but I doubt that's all that representative of what they sound like on the track.

Rwlong > RaggedMile 01/26/2014 at 18:37

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Oh I will watch. I will get up a absurd times to watch them live as I did last year. It just won't be as beautiful.

SCar guy > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:38

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Haven't we had this discussion before?

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BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Aaron Short - PROUD OF LEYLAND 01/26/2014 at 18:40

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Fuck, how could I forget about Richard Burns? I've got a shirt from the cancer charity set up by his fiancee. One of my favourites. Someone who didn't have the raw talent of some of the other drivers, but reached their level and beat them through sheer determination and hard work. Inspirational man.

I will also agree with Loeb's dominance having pushed away viewers. It certainly seems to have woken up a bit after he's moved on to new things.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > SCar guy 01/26/2014 at 18:44

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You're right, we have in way.

Trouble is, there'd probably be sod all passing :)

pyzamo213 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:46

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..inspired by Alonso´s nose..

highplainsdrifter > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:46

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I can't wait until Redbull unveil their car so we can watch all the Newey fanboys gush about its functional design.

Kmccauley > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:48

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Ultimately you are correct — looks don't matter. I'll still watch, we'll get used to the cars, and if it helps safety, that's hard to argue against.

What's frustrating is that the rules changes seem to be written by people who have no understanding of modern F1 cars, or how Formula 1 cars are designed. The inability to foresee real-world consequences of the nose height rules is plain to see. No, I'd hate to see Adrian Newey writing the regulations, but whoever drafted these is affecting things well above their pay grade.

Zotz > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:49

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This. That is all.

Aaron Short - PROUD OF LEYLAND > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:54

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RB foundation, wearing my wristband right now.

Nail on the head there mate, exactly why hes my personal hero, so smooth and consistent too. A friend of mine has met him and Colin, says Colin was an arrogant bastard and Richard was a true gent.

WRC was suffering with Schumacher syndrome really, most people dont want to watch when they already know whos going to win. F1 is starting to go the same way with Vettel, lets hope these new rules shake it up.

Personally I think the new noses are great, look at how different they all look! Amazing to see so many original solutions to a problem (that shouldn't really exist, but ohwell!) If people grew up and got past the whole "OMG PENIS NOSE" thing, they'd realise these are some of the best looking F1 cars ever made, the rear packaging is fascinating.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Zotz 01/26/2014 at 18:55

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Mmmmm. Beautiful car.

Not as fast as the current cars given the same power though, which is ultimately all that matters for an F1 team.

notoriousEIC > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:58

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I'm sorry, but these cars are terrible looking, and it's going to be hard for casual fans to understand why they're so ugly. If the FIA really wants to protect the driver's heads when one car spears another they should just raise the seat height (and corresponding cockpit surround). The negative aerodynamic effect would also help slow the cars down, which the FIA is always trying to figure out how to do to make them safer.

Barbarian772 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 18:59

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We didn't have very exciting racing in 2013 and we didn't have very exciting racing in the early 2000s when Schumacher won everything...

I doubt that faster means less exciting though, right now the only reason for most overtaking maneuvers are DRS and/or Kers.

the only way to save F1 imo:

1)Get back to engine power and mechanical grip, would make it more exciting, possibly faster and it would be cheaper for new teams to get into F1.

2)If you want to save fuel tell each team how much fuel they are allowed to use each race. NO MORE RULES for the engine. If they want a six cylinder turbo, that's fine, but if they manage to get a 12 cylinder with good fuel economy, then let them use it.

3)Let Pirelli make the best racing tires they possibly and don't make them bad intentionally to get racing more exciting.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > highplainsdrifter 01/26/2014 at 19:01

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I want to see what they've done at the front. So far, Lotus are the oddballs. I wonder what Newey's come up with.

Actually, I want to see how fast they are without their very clever little running board fix. I'm hoping they're more on par with the rest of the teams. Closer racing :)

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Kmccauley 01/26/2014 at 19:03

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I'd actually like to see Newey write the regulations, so long as he doesn't still work for Red Bull :)

notoriousEIC > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:03

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No, all that matters to an F1 team is that their car be faster than everyone else's. I'll take marginally slower, better looking F1 cars over ugly, imperceptibly faster cars any day.

Galant Enthusiast > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:04

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I agree that safety > looks. That said they could achieve both. The early 90's F1 cars looked much better and they had low noses. Not saying those cars are safe but why not put regulations in place that ban the generally ugly stuff that F1 teams do to make a tiny bit more down force? The FIA has a lot of variables to play with to gain speed back if they make the cars safe and good looking.

Scrape > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:05

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Totally agree...F-1 is function over form.

Unlike Indy Car where the current chassis was chosen in part because of its looks and available space for prominent advertising.

Cynical > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:05

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Yeah, you all complaining about the looks are totally out of touch with what racing is. Just go to the auto shows where they have those pretty concepts and stay away from the track.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > notoriousEIC 01/26/2014 at 19:06

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You're right there. It's the competition that they care about. That is something the FIA could have regulated for, but it's not necessarily for speed but for safety. If an uglier nose is a safer nose, that's a compromise I'm happy with.

Cynical > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:07

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I can't imagine what the ignorants would have thought about the Group B cars, let alone the real freaks of the CanAm series. Bunch of hard parkers.

corsa > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:08

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To the engineer in me, all F1 cars are beautiful.

Kmccauley > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:10

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Agreed!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > notoriousEIC 01/26/2014 at 19:17

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How do you know that raising the seat height wouldn't have resulted in ugly cars as well?

I do agree with ugly cars not appealing to casual viewers, which is an oversight on the FIA's part, although from my standpoint what appeals to casual viewers is a compelling rivalry story. I think the casual viewer is more interested in 'Hamilton, Alonso, Kimi and Vettel separated by 4 points at season finale' than any pretty car. It's what first brought F1 to the masses with Hunt vs Lauda, and I think it's what would do it again today.

Zotz > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:22

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The MP4/4 was both beautiful and successful, as we know, winning the '88 F1 season with Senna at the wheel. Notable also was its chief designer, an American - Steve Nichols (along with with the brilliant Gordon Murray). The '70s and '80s were truly a different era for F1.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Barbarian772 01/26/2014 at 19:30

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I'd love to see a move more towards engine power and mechanical grip, but I think that moves away from the MO of F1 as a tech series. Aero is the height of tech at the moment, so it'd be wrong for F1 to be completely restricted in its implementation.

I do agree on the tyres though. Pirelli have done admirably at what they were asked to do (create a tyre that degrades sharply after a certain amount of running), but I'd much rather have a series that allows the drivers to go flat-out for as long as they can keep it up.

Stradale > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:31

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Pretty sure everyone knows why they look the way they do, but that does not stop them from looking ugly. Good rant though.

Barbarian772 > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:34

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You might be right on the Aero part, I would still love to see more power from the engines, but I doubt that this would ever happen.

It would be great if the driver could be the weakest part again, not the tires or anything else.

KingsleyZissou > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:35

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Then why watch F1? I certainly don't watch it for close racing. Now the cars don't look or sound cool. Give me a reason.

Blakkar > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:35

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That is a pretty serious change.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Aaron Short - PROUD OF LEYLAND 01/26/2014 at 19:36

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Great to know that about Richard :) humility just takes people to another level

I really hope F1 doesn't go that way. It's impressive, but boring. I remember hearing about an interview with Webber who said that the new rules suit Seb's driving style, but at the same time Red Bull's clever little trick with the movable ride-height board has been found out so maybe that's what's been giving them such speed. They'll still be quick, but maybe catchable...

I think 'fascinating' is the perfect way to describe all modern F1 cars. They're not necessarily beautiful, but it's fascinating looking at all the intricate details and wondering what each little sculpted piece does :)

Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:38

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Form in function.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Galant Enthusiast 01/26/2014 at 19:41

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I think a lot of F1 fans would baulk at the idea of restricting the teams' capacity to play with aero just to make the cars look good. It's easier to swallow slower cars if it's in the name of safety, but less so in the name of aesthetics.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > Blunion05 drives a pink S2000 (USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) 01/26/2014 at 19:43

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There's a case for that, but in F1 cars that would only ever be a happy coincidence. They're definitely 'function' cars.

Fred Smith > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:46

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Hey, uh, don't talk about Dan Wheldon ever again, please. Just, don't.

Then, understand that we lost the man in an incident that had nothing to do with the safety of different open wheeled cars and everything to do with the safety of tracks and the safety of pack racing at 230 miles an hour in open wheel cars, let alone noses. In fact, the IR07 we lost him in had a much lower nose than that of any Formula 1 car made in the past 20 years, let alone the past three. That you even tried to compare the two shows not only ignorance but a complete disregard for the severity of subject matter you have attempted to write about.

Then, realize that there hasn't been a car unanimously agreed to be attractive on the IRL side of American Open Wheel Racing since around 1998

Then, understand that linking to an original article about the passing of a man that's a superhero to many in an article that entirely misses the mark is a terrible idea. Absolutely terrible. Realize that it's tasteless and brings back levels of pain in those who lived the moment that no man or woman should ever have to experience. Realize what it means to have lost a hero and realize it's the single most horrible thing in the world of sport.

Then, realize that for five full hours many of those of us watching the Rolex 24 quietly feared that we had lost Memo Gidley during the race. Realize that motorsport fans had to endure seeing a clearly compromised chassis sitting in the middle of a track for a full hour with it's pilot still inside with the worst possible thought on the back of their mind. Realize that this would make them far more sensitive to something like this and thus far easier to set off with a simple dumb decision.

Then realize that your article itself fails to note that this latest set of nose changes came because the FIA's first two attempts, in 2013 and 2012, failed to actually lower the structural part of the noses at all. The new noses are dramatically lower than last year's not because the FIA felt last year's noses were inadequate but because the FIA failed to actually have an impact on the design of the cars, not the noses that go on the cars, in both 2012 and 2013.

Then, once you've thought of all of that, realize for a second that the man you've pissed off here has had a picture of Dan Wheldon on every single account he's had on the internet for the last three years. Also, that he owns the site you're writing on.

While it's true that neither of these last two things things are pertinent to my argument, they're both of note when you consider why I'm so angry right now. Realize that you're putting this on a website that I proudly tie my name to, a website that I'm constantly trying to encourage more brilliant writers to join, and that I now may potentially have to explain to the thousands of people that saw this article on the front page that your word is not what Oppositelock represents as a whole, that we're as a website better than this.

That's not something I want to do.

I am not asking you to change your article. Quite frankly, I don't think I should be allowed to have the authority to do that. No, all I'm saying is that I disapprove of your choices wholeheartedly to the point that I am actively offended and that I, as a reader, wanted you to know this. Now, if you'll excuse me, it's time to watch some half-hearted American football from Hawaii.

dieseldub > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 01/26/2014 at 19:47

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Dare I say it, it's a slightly unfair comparison for IndyCar. They race on ovals doing speeds that exceed F1 cars. Track safety is kind of the issue here, not necessarily cars. There have been numerous IndyCars launched into the fences at 200+ mph since the Indy Racing League was founded (1996, 1997 they got their own cars separate from the turbo champ cars) and SLOWED the cars down to the point where it creates pack racing.

Majority of the deaths that have occured have been on ovals, typically involving a car having wheel to wheel contact (not unlike what was mentioned about Mark Webber) doing ~210 MPH on an oval, launching a car in the fence. Some drivers survive, some seriously injured, others die. What's the difference? Luck. Luck in where and how the car hits the fence. Dan Wheldon was unlucky as his car happened to launch cockpit-side first into the fence, doing massive damage directly to his head. Others came away unscathed in similar wrecks because they were 'lucky' enough to have another section of the car hit the fence instead of the driver's head first.

I wouldn't go so far as to say there's that big of a difference in car safety. Both are quite strong and safe and can withstand tremendous impacts and still save the driver. The difference is the type of racing and the type of tracks IndyCar races at are more dangerous than the stricter safety standards F1 has for its tracks. F1 doesn't do ovals, at all. Period.